On this episode, we are talking about TV stars who became famous for their work on sitcoms, and then had a second act with a role in a dramatic series.
On this episode, we are talking about TV stars who became famous for their work on sitcoms, and then had a second act with a role in a dramatic series.
Welcome to Don’t Touch That Dial, a classic TV podcast. Did you grow up in the 70s and 80s? Did you rush home from school to watch reruns of the Brady Bunch and The Partridge Family? On each episode of Don't Touch That Dial, three guys who love TV will look back on those days and talk about the shows and stars that made watching television before streaming, DVRs, and even VCRs so special.
ANTHONY: Hello everyone and welcome to Don't Touch That Dial, a classic TV podcast. On this episode we are talking about TV stars who became famous for their work on sitcoms and then have a second act with a role in a dramatic series. I'm Anthony Stoeckert.
JODY: I’m Jody Schwartz.
KEITH: And I’m Keith Loria.
ANTHONY: There is something in the world of classic TV that we can talk about. Earlier this month, actually, maybe last month, Hal Linden and Sally Struthers starred in a brand new play The Journals of Adam and Eve written by Ed. Weinberger, who co-created Taxi and The Cosby Show and wrote for The Mary Tyler Moore Show and Johnny Carson. It was in California with the Garry Marshall Theatre I believe. I don't know where that is. And my first question for you guys is why does Ed. Weinberger has a period in his first name?
JODY: You know, I don't know that. But I’ve noticed over the years, and I always meant to inquire, I never did.
ANTHONY: I was gonna look it up. I'm like, you know, it's more fun not to know.
JODY: Same with me because I didn't like the fact that I didn't know it,
ANTHONY: Keith, do you know?
KEITH: I didn't even know that . The period is after his first name?
JODY: Yeah, E D period. And then usually, there's no period, E, D period.
Anthony: It stood out because I was reading articles about this and just seeing that in an article, I guess, stood out in a way that even television credits don't.
JODY: Yeah and over the years, I've seen it printed that way too. I think at one time I thought maybe it's a mistake, but man, it keeps coming up
ANTHONY: Yeah, no, I don't think it's a mistake.
KEITH: Imagine how much of a pain that would have been like as an editor to do that.
ANTHONY: I wouldn't have hired him. I would’ve been like, “You know what? Just get out of here with your period.”
JODY: Speaking as a veteran copy editor that would kill me.
KEITH: I'm reading it now. His given name is Edwin.For some reason, he wanted to put a period by it .
ANTHONY: There you go. Well, more importantly than that, Keith, you've interviewed Sally Struthers, right? At least once?
KEITH: I have. I mean, I’ve interviewed them both, Sally and Hal.
ANTHONY: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. What were they like?
JODY: You know why the period was there?
KEITH: I should have asked. They both were very, they were great. You know, they both love talking television. I remember Sally talking about how in the old days you know, people would come see her and they would always talk about All In the Family. And then you know, in the last probably 20 years, a little less, you know, people come up to her and talk about the Gilmore Girls.
ANTHONY: Yeah.
KEITH: She has these two generations of people talking about, you know, two very amazing television shows.
JODY: Pretty cool.
ANTHONY: That's cool. And she likes that? She likes when people talk to her about it?
KEITH: Yes, she does.
ANTHONY: That's nice. I saw her. I think you wrote about the play that I saw her in and I saw her in …
KEITH: Clue.
ANTHONY: A production of Clue at Bucks County Playhouse and she was very good. I wish we could see that show.
KEITH: Now my favorite thing about my Hal interview was I told him that I have the Barney Miller game show game, the board game and he said that he has a copy as well. And he said …
ANTHONY: You have something in common with Hal.
KEITH: He thinks we may be the only two people that have a copy of that game.
ANTHONY: I liked that game.
JODY: That's a good game.
ANTHONY: We should let our listeners know.
JODY: We recently played that game. The three of us played it.
ANTHONY: Every once in a while, the three of us get together and play TV board games, including Barney Miller. I think Barney Miller may be my favorite of those games.
JODY: That was a good one.
Anthony: Well, let's talk about the main topic of this show: TV stars who became famous on comedies and then had success later on in a drama. How do we want to do this? Do you want me to just throw some names out there? Do people want to start with anybody specific.
JODY: I have someone I want to start with and this is the most interesting one: Ed Asner of course as Lou Grant, a character originated on The Mary Tyler Moore Show which is obviously a sitcom and, you know, the character on the show on Mary Tyler Moore was funny and goofy. He had a bottle of alcohol on the desk, he you know, and he said funny things. And then you know, Lou Grant came out a number of years later and suddenly it's a drama and he's the most serious guy ever. He goes from working on the TV station in Minneapolis to the editor, Executive Editor, whatever of a paper in Los Angeles, and now he's Mr. Serious, very serious newspaperman. And the little interesting note about this, there was a recurring character on Mary Tyler Moore, Mary's Aunt Flo, Flo Meredith who was a famous news woman. She's played by Eileen Heckart and she actually had a one time spot on, the guest spot, on Lou Grant playing the same character. And now she's covering a statewide political campaign with Billy Newman, who is a junior reporter on the newspaper.
ANTHONY: Oh wow. I remember when Lou Grant started, and we were young, and I watched the first episode and I said, “Boy, the tone of this guy's life really changed.”
JODY: Yes.
ANTHONY: I didn't watch it so I mean, I really didn't watch dramas when I was a kid.
JODY: The thing about Lou Grant too, is that the show it's called Lou Grant, but he's not, I mean, he's on it a lot, obviously, but it's not all focused on him. It's really more journalism issues. It deals with other kinds of issues. It's very much a workplace. It's about the stuff that happens at the newspaper. It tackled some major issues including things like child molestation and rape and political coverage.
ANTHONY: That's a big difference from the Mary Tyler Moore Show.
JODY: That's my point is that …
ANTHONY: Did he ever refer to, like, his life in Minneapolis?
JODY: Once in a while they would bring it up. I don't think any of the characters from The Mary Tyler Moore Show ever name, never …
ANTHONY: Georgette never showed up in the newsroom in the episode about rape?
JODY: I used to dream of that happening, of, like, Ted Baxter walking into this newsroom. He did mention every once in a while, you know, being in Minneapolis and he did mention every once in a while having come from television back into newspapers. The character that I mentioned – you know, Meredith, Mary's Aunt Flo on Mary Tyler Moore – she had like a brief fling with Lou and then it's referred to on Lou Grant that when she's talking to Billy about what they got together
KEITH: continuity, amazing.
JODY: Amazing, yeah
ANTHONY: Interesting too, because Mary Tyler Moore later in her career had a very short-lived show where she was the editor or publisher of a newspaper. I think it lasted like half a season. I don't think all the episodes aired and she did not like the show or her character .
JODY: And I believe she was playing like the mean boss too.
ANTHONY: She was, yeah. How about you Keith?
KEITH: I have some funny things to say, but in honor of this podcast, I decided that I'm gonna go drama today, just be serious.
ANTHONY: You can listen to Keith’s spin off Keith Loria, the Spinoff Podcast.
KEITH: With a question mark after my first name.
JODY: Or an exclamation point.
ANTHONY: What about what about character actors, Keith, who switched from comedy to drama? What comes to mind for you?
KEITH: The one that comes to mind most for me is Jack Klugman.
ANTHONY: Yes.
KEITH: I was such a huge Odd Couple fan and I really enjoyed Quincy as well. You know again, probably when I was younger, I don't know if I …
JODY: Quincy was a great show.
Anthony: Yeah, that was a drama I, one of the rare dramas I watched.
JODY: Yeah.
KEITH: Can I say that I had no idea what the M.E. stood for when I was a kid
ANTHONY: : Me neither
KEITH: I thought it was “Quincy me” for the longest time. I don't know if I ever found out but I really thought that was the name.
ANTHONY: I’m not even sure I recognize the M.E. when I was a kid. I'm not even sure if I paid attention to it.
JODY: I don't know that anybody, I mean, it was the official name of the show, Quincy M.E., but no one has ever said “Did you watch Quincy M.E.?” It was always like, “Did you see Quincy?”
ANTHONY: Yeah.
KEITH: I may have said “Did you watch Quincy me?”
JODY: Quincy me, people thought you had a speech problem.
ANTHONY: I remember the opening credits of Quincy, there were like, I think there was more than one shot of him, inspecting a body and then at the end they pull back and he's looking at a woman on the beach. He's like that's you know, flirting with the with a woman on the beach.
KEITH: I remember that.
JODY: He's instructing a group of cops. You know, “You're about to enter the most fascinating part of police work, the world of forensic medicine.” He pulls the thing up and the cops start fainting.
KEITH: Yeah, one by one.
ANTHONY: Jack Klugman as a ladies man? Okay, you know, hey.
JODY: He actually lives on a boat.
KEITH: He dated on the Odd couple as well.
JODY: He lives on a boat but you know interesting about …
ANTHONY: He dated on The Odd Couple. He was a player on Quincy. He was a guy, on The Odd Couple, he was a guy who dated. On Quincy, he was like a ladies’ man.
JODY: On The Odd Couple, he was with Crazy Rhoda Zimmerman on The Odd Couple. On Quincy, he was with like fashion models on the beach. ANTHONY: Yeah. And speed was on Quincy
JODY: Yes Garry Walberg. I was gonna say Garry Walberg, another guy who went from comedy to drama was Lt. Frank Monahan. He was actually Speed on The Odd couple.
KEITH: And they played poker.
JODY: They did play poker.
ANTHONY: Yeah. And that switch for me as a very young kid, it didn't seem as drastic, the change from the Odd Couple to Quincy, to me for some reason, you know the way Lou Grant seemed or something else that I'm going to talk about, like, you know, it kind of fit Klugman that switch.
JODY: Yeah, because the character wasn't like, you know, obviously he was a medical examiner, but he wasn't so straight laced…
KEITH: THAT’S what M.E. stands for medical examiner! Wow!
JODY: And we’ve uncovered another mystery here.
ANTHONY: One I wanted to talk about was Larry Hagman, who went from I Dream of Jeannie to Dallas, and I didn't watch Dallas when it first came on, but I don't know how old I was. But I remember being absolutely baffled by the idea that the guy who was on I Dream of Jeannie was going to be on a drama and that he was gonna play a bad guy like it made absolutely no sense to me. And what's funny about that is Larry Hagman is definitely better known for playing J.R. now than for playing the astronaut on I Dream of Jeannie
KEITH: I don’t know if I’d call J.R. a bad man.
JODY: Imagine what J.R would do with Jeannie?
ANTHONY: What do you like about J.R.? What are his good qualities Keith?
KEITH: He's a great dad. He wants to do everything for his son, John Ross.
ANTHONY: That's true.
KEITH: He cares about his family. He might sleep with his brother's wife, but you know, he loves them.
JODY: never never, never slept with a brother's wife. He hated his brother's wives. He hated Pam and he hated Val Gary's wife, so never never slept with the brothers’ wives.
ANTHONY: I can only say Cliff Barnes would have disagreed with Keith on this one.
JODY: Yes. Let’s get him on the show.
ANTHONY: I absolutely could not fathom the concept that the guy from I Dream of Jeannie was going to be in a dramatic show. Like it just didn't work for me. Eventually it worked for me, but the idea was just a shock. JODY: Barbara Eden eventually did a recurring role in Dallas, too
Anthony: Oh I don’t remember that.
JODY: Yeah, and later, in the later episodes.
ANTHONY: I may have stopped watching by then.
ANTHONY: She was actually somebody who led to his downfall later in the show.
ANTHONY: Oh, okay.
JODY: Yeah, she was involved in the thing that caused him Ewing Oil
ANTHONY: All right.
JODY: But I always used to always think that, man, what if J.R. had Jeannie? Can you imagine what, some of havoc he would wreak?
KEITH: I have to correct you Jody. J.R. did sleep with Abby, after Gary married Abby.
JODY: Oh, okay. Okay, you're right. Well, no, I don't think they were married yet. That was on Knots Landing. I don't think they were married yet.
KEITH: No, we might have to check.
JODY: We may have to check that one. Get our crack team on that I think he slept with Abby actually even before Gary hooked up with him. I think he slept with Abby first. Man, Gary.
ANTHONY: J.R. was such a good guy
KEITH: Ray slept with Sue Ellen. But that was after they were married as well. That's the opposite way.
ANTHONY: We can do a whole episode on who slept with who on Dallas JODY: And Knots landing.
ANTHONY: I didn't watch Knots Landing. J.R was on Knots Landing?
JODY: Yeha, a couple of episodes. He had a couple of, yeah, a few, especially in the early days.
ANTHONY: It had to be before Bobby died.
JODY: Yes. Right. Okay, once the whole thing with Bobby happened, they kind of stopped referring to Dallas.
ANTHONY: Yeah, very good. Very cool. So who else? Anybody else want to mention someone ?
JODY: Carroll O'Connor.
ANTHONY: That was a biggie.
JODY: Archie Bunker and then you know, Chief of Police Bill Gillespie on In the Heat of the Night, which by the way, ran for like seven seasons and 147 episodes In the Heat of the Night.
ANTHONY: A lot of these shows that we're talking about, like, we're calling them the second acts. They ran a long time.
JODY: Well, Quincy ran longer than The Odd Couple. Quincy was eight seasons. The Odd Couple was five and In the Heat of the Night ran almost as long as All in the Family. And the thing about Heat of the Night with Carroll O’Connor was, you know, I mean Archie Bunker was such an iconic character and such a part of the world. You know, in a million years, I never would have thought I could look at Carroll O'Connor and think of anybody else but watching him play that part, he was totally believable. And he was amazing on that show.
ANTHONY: Yeah, that was another show I didn't watch. Movie’s great. I’ve seen the movie; that’s great.
JODY: The funny thing about the about the show is you know the movie came out in 67 and the show was set during the 80s and it's set in present time but they're making it seem like the events of the movie were like not that far away from the show.
ANTHONY: So in the movie, who played Sidney Poitier part?
JODY: Rollins? I don’t remember.
ANTHONY: Rollins? I can see his face.
JODY: Yeah, I can see his face too. I'm forgetting the name,
ANTHONY: But he plays the same character and he's just he just stays there?
JODY: Yes.
ANTHONY: Two that come to mind for me and these are shows I didn't watch but they just really stand out as, like, iconic 70 shows; they’re dramas. Robert Young, who went from Father Knows Best to Marcus Welby and Buddy Epson, who was on Beverly Hillbillies, and then he's on this dramatic cop show Barnaby Jones.
JODY: And the character of Barnaby Jones is so serious.
ANTHONY: He never talks about the “ce-ment” pond on Barnaby Jones? JODY: Never, not once and to go from Jed Clampett to that is phenomenal.
ANTHONY: Something about Barnaby Jones, the guest stars who are on that – these are just a few of them: Dabney Coleman, Margot Kidder, Roddy McDowell, Nick Nolte, Wayne Rogers, Jessica Walter, Shatner, Jonathan Frakes, Larry Hagman, Dee Wallace, Tommy Lee Jones, Sean Penn, John Ritter. That's just a few. I can go on and on. That show got amazing guest stars like some people who are already established and people who went on to be. But yeah, that's one of those two shows I always knew about but I've never seen an episode of them.
KEITH: Let's get our Happy Days plug in like we do every episode. Tom Bosley went from Howard Cunningham to playing Father Dowling on the Father Dowling Mysteries.
JODY: Yes
ANTHONY: Absolutely. Was he on like another show that character and then they spun off?
JODY: Yeah, Murder She Wrote.
ANTHONY: He was in that Murder She Wrote? Yeah, yeah, another show I didn’t… I'm a big help this episode. This is another show I didn't watch. So what? Do either of you know anything about it?
KEITH: I used to watch. Agin, he used to pop up on Murder She Wrote as kind of a not bumbling detective but you know, kind of a …
JODY: He was a cop.
KEITH: Yeah, he was a cop. They tried to make him seem like he was almost like a Columbo-esque type character where he played a little dumb.
ANTHONY: And he played dumb and was smarter than he played?
KEITH: Yes.
ANTHONY: … Or was he genuinely dumb?
JODY: Yes, yeah. Yeah.
ANTHONY: Okay.
JODY: And I have to tell you on Murder She Wrote, he was the character who was really more sort of like the comic relief part of it. That show always had a laugh somewhere.
ANTHONY: But he didn't play Father Dowling on Murder, She Wrote?
KEITH: No, he didn’t play Father Dowling, a different character.
JODY: No he didn’t play Father Dowling.
ANTHONY: But, yeah, he never played Father Dowling like, he didn't play Farther Dowling on a show before?
JODY: Oh, that was, OK. I didn't understand your question.
KEITH: He may have had, like a movie; they may have done a movie first.
JODY: There was a TV movie first, I believe. Yeah. And then it became a series.
ANTHONY: Who was the woman on that show with him? She was like, was she someone well known, the daughter of someone?
KEITH: The Square Pegs girl.
JODY: Tracy Nelson
KEITH: Tracy Nelson.
ANTHONY: What was the tone of that show? Was it like light-hearted or …?
KEITH: Very light hearted
JODY: But drama. They solved mysteries
KEITH: Right. It was almost like a Moonlighting type, you know, without the sexual tension between the nun and the father.
JODY: Because it was a priest and a nun.
ANTHONY: I'm not watching it now. I want to see the heat between Tom Bosley and Tracy Nelson. Yeah.
JODY: Will they or won’t they?
ANTHONY: Everyone's got their fingers crossed for won’t. Another one though, Dick Van Dyke many years later, did Diagnosis Murder. Again, I didn't watch it, but that I think was like, I guess it was an hour long. He solved mysteries but from what I understand that's a very light-hearted, almost a comedic show.
KEITH: Yeah. I think he was the first murderer on Matlock.
JODY: Oh, yeah.
ANTHONY: Oh really?
KEITH: He played a judge. It could be another show. But I think it was Matlock.
JODY: No, I think he was a murderer. I don't remember if he was the first but he was definitely a murderer on one of them.
KEITH: I think it was the first episode. Because I didn't watch that much Matlock, but I watched the first season.
ANTHONY: That's another one.
JODY: Which brings us to Andy Griffith.
ANTHONY: Andy Griffith who went from Andy Griffith Show to Matlock.
JODY: And Don Knots was on some episodes of Matlock.
ANTHONY: Oh, he was on more than one episode?
JODY: I believe so.
KEITH: What did he play
JODY: I'm trying to remember now. He definitely played a friend of his who was like staying with him and like he would come home and you know, Don Knotts is cooking dinner. It was that kind of thing
KEITH: Right and Linda Purl was on that show.
ANTHONY: How many times has Linda Purl come up on this podcast?
JODY: We must have the record of a podcast mentioning Linda Purl. I’m very proud of that.
KEITH: I'm guessing Ron Howard was never on the show. He didn't do much television.
JODY: But he did do the return to Mayberry.
KEITH: Right.
ANTHONY: Yes. I think that I think the Return to Mayberry might be the last time he acted on camera.
JODY: Yeah, I think so too, except for voiceovers on Arrested Development.
ANTHONY: Yes, but I think the last time he actually acted and completed … oh he played himself on This Is Us. But I think the last time he acted and played the character that wasn't him was the Andy Griffith reunion movie with the Loch Ness monster in the pond.
KEITH: This is interesting since we mentioned both Andy and Dick Van Dyke. Two years after Matlock ended ,he appeared as Matlock on Diagnosis Murder.
ANTHONY: Wow, that must have been huge for the geriatrics of the country. That's like Fonzie and Barbarino teaming up for us. Another one: Meredith Baxter or Meredith Baxter Birney, however you want to refer to her, she went from Family, a very serious show, to Family Ties. Both shows had the “family” in title.
JODY: She did the opposite.
KEITH: Yeah, reverse.
ANTHONY: That's Oh, yeah. What am I thinking? Yeah, of course. Okay. Yes, she did.
JODY: That counts.
KEITH: Yeah. Well, Kristy McNichol did as well then because she went from Family to Empty Nest.
ANTHONY: Right with Richard Mulligan.
JODY: A spin off of the Golden Girls.
ANTHONY: Yeah, Judd Hirsch also did the reverse. Although his first show wasn't really a success. He was a detective on DelVecchio, which lasted a year.
JODY: He ended up going back to drama because he was on that show Numbers, which was a drama.
KEITH: Oh, that's right.
ANTHONY: I don't know what that is.
JjS Yeah, that was another procedural drama. There was a kid in it who could solve crimes with math. And he was his father.
ANTHONY: And then he went back to comedy with the donut show.
JODY: Yes, that's correct.
ANTHONY: Maybe Judd Hirsch is just a…
JODY: Make up your mind universe.
ANTHONY: He might just be a regular working actor. I'm not sure he, maybe we shouldn't have him in this.
KEITH: The donut show wasn’t …
JODY: And also back to comedy with the Goldbergs.
ANTHONY: Yeah, he showed up on other things, too. But Bill Bixby that's went from The Courtship of Eddie's father to the Hulk. That's another one that threw me off but I got used to it pretty quickly. I did watch the Hulk.
JODY: What always threw me about was it was so much different than the comic book and that's what threw me with the TV show.
KEITH: Yeah.
ANTHONY: See, I didn't read the comics. Did you like the TV show?
JODY: I liked it enough. But I didn't like it… you know, to me, it wasn't like watching the Hulk because my image of the Hulk was what I saw in the comics and the whole story the lines in the comics so to me it was just another show where the green monster.
ANTHONY: It was kind of like the Fugitive, I think
JODY: In a way yeah, in a way.
Anthony: The show the Hulk was kind of like the Fugitive.
JODY: Yes, yes. Because you know, David Banner is believed to be dead.
ANTHONY: That was cool. Did Lou Ferrigno do a comedy before Hulk?
JODY: He actually did, he had a recurring role on King of Queens.
ANTHONY: That was after?
JODY: After.
ANTHONY: Did he play himself?
Keith: He played himself.
JODY: He played himself but himself as Kevin James's neighbor for some reason
ANTHONY: He was living in an apartment in Queens?
JODY: Well, they owned the house.
ANTHONY: They owned the house, ah ok.
JODY: Kevin James owns a house in the show.
KEITH: And then Lou went on the Apprentice. So he did some reality as well.
ANTHONY: Man, Lou did it all with a career. What a career. How far did he get on the Apprentice? Did he win?
KEITH: He didn’t win. He did very well though, much like the Battle of the Network Stars.
ANTHONY: Okay. All right. I just have to rant. How did they not put him in the tug-of-war that year?
KEITH: If you want to hear more about the Battle of Network Stars, listen to our podcast from two months ago.
JODY: We may do one just on that tug-of-war.
ANTHONY: Here's another one and I'm not too sure on the whole thing. You guys will know better. In fact, I only found out this week that Sharon Gless’s last name is not Sharon Glass. For 40 years I thought her last name was Glass. So she went from a comedy to drama and then somebody…
JODY: Whatever she was in, you didn't watch.
ANTHONY: yeah, I didn't watch any of this stuff. So somebody take the ball on this.
KEITH: So she was in House Calls.
JODY: Yes, she was in House Calls, but not for the whole things like the last season after Linda Redgrave left. She replaced, her character replaced Linda Redgrave's character.
ANTHONY: Did she play the same role?
JODY: Same role. The hospital administrator who has a sexual tension with Wayne Rogers.
ANTHONY: OK, hey, that makes sense tonight.
JODY: Who doesn't have sexual tension with Wayne Rogers, right?
ANTHONY: And then she went from that to Cagney & Lacey. Was she Cagney or Lacey?
JODY: She was Cagney. She was Christine Cagney and as it's been pointed out, in the original TV movie Loretta Swit played Cagney. Loretta Swit still had– they wouldn't let her out of her M*A*S*H contract even though it was coming to an end so she couldn't do the series. Tyne Daly was Lacey in both.
ANTHONY: How many years were M*A*S*H and Cagney & Lacey both on?
JODY: Not long. I think M*A*S*H only had like a year left.
ANTHONY: Wow.
JODY: They wouldn't let her out of the contract though.
ANTHONY: And Swit wanted to leave the last season?
JODY: I don't know the specifics. I do know she wanted to play the part in the series and that the reason she didn't was because they wouldn't let her out of whatever contract she was under with M*A*S*H.
ANTHONY: Now they would let her do both. People are on, you know, multiple shows now.
JODY: And they were on the same network, too. It was both CBS .
KEITH: But they did a lot of episodes back then. Nowadays, people only do 16 episodes.
ANTHONY: That's true.
JODY: That's a good point. Yeah, yeah.
ANTHONY: They could have made it work. Whoever was in charge of CBS was a jerk.
JODY: It may have been the M*A*S*H people.
ANTHONY: Well, whoever didn't let Loretta Swit get a second job that would continue when they knew M*A*S*H was ending, they could’ve figured something out.
JODY: Yeah, I'd have to look, check the exact timeframe but I know that the TV movie she was in was like 80 or 81. And I think that the show premiered – Cagney & Lacey– the series premiered during M*A*S*H’s final season.
ANTHONY: Okay.
JODY: I'd have to double check that; not the half season they did the last full season.
ANTHONY: And Cagney & Lacey was a pretty serious show, right? I mean, it was a procedural, everything wrapped up every episode, but it tackled serious issues. It wasn't light-hearted. It was more Lou Grant than Diagnosis Murder.
KEITH: Now, I didn't watch regularly. I did watch a little bit, but I could be misremembering, but wasn't Robert Hegyes also on Cagney & Lacey?
JODY: Yeah. He was on and so was – what's his name? – Martin Cove, Sensei Kreese.
KEITH: But he wasn’t in a comedy. Robert Hegyes was in the comedy first.
ANTHONY: Oh, there you go.
KEITH: I’m trying to stick to the theme
JODY: Okay, I gotcha. Gotcha.I'm with you.
ANTHONY: Robert Cove also kidnapped Sammy Davis Jr. in an episode of Charlie's Angels, which we have to talk about.
JODY: And then caught him karate. Martin Cove was a regular – I'm laughing now because I'm thinking about that episode of Charlie's Angels – Martin Cove was a regular on Cagney & Lacey?
JODY: He was.
ANTHONY: Was Hegyes on the whole run?
JODY and KEITH: I don't think so.
KEITH: I think he was. Let’s get our crack staff on that right away, please. JODY: Please.
ANTHONY: Our researchers are hard at work. Hegyes is the only – obviously Travolta – but neither Boom Boom or Horshack ever had regular series work after Kotter, did they?
KEITH: Lawrence Hilton-Jacobs played the father in the Jackson Five.
JODY: In the Jackson miniseries.
ANTHONY: Yeah, OK.
JODY: He played Joe Jackson.
KEITH: So good
ANTHONY: He’s a good actor. Yeah. And he was the principal on Gilmore Girls.
KEITH: That's right.
JODY: Yes. But he was really good in that Jacksons TV movie.
ANTHONY: Yeah. Let's see, one that I have that I can think of is Ted Danson from Cheers to – well he had Becker but then he went on to CS – was he on the original CSI the regular one?
JODY: NO, he came later, he came later.
ANTHONY: But I mean, the show that's just called CSI he was on.
JODY: Yes, he was on the original show of CSI but he came later in the run.
ANTHONY: Right, he replaced Peterson. Again, I didn't watch that at all. I don't know if you guys did.
JODY: He was really good. I liked his character on CSI and he, you know, as always, he was really good in it. And you know, he had obviously Becker and he also had that show Ink with Mary Steenburgen before Becker.
ANTHONY: Oh, Ink was before Becker?
Yeah, I think so. Because Becker was on for a little while. Ink didn't last very long.
ANTHONY: Becker was before CSI Right?
JODY: Correct.
ANTHONY: And he's been on how many seasons of TV has he been on?
KEITH: A lot.
ANTHONY: Yeah, yeah. Really incredible. So he's had quite a career in television. Alright, anybody have anybody else?
KEITH: I mean, there's a lot of people that were in like 90s TV shows that went on but that will take us forever to go through all those.
ANTHONY: Lucille Ball never had a drama show. No. movie she played. This isn't funny, but she played a homeless person.
JODY: Yes.
ANTHONY: She looked like Lucy but homeless.
JODY: Lucy burned down the apartment building or something.
ANTHONY: Ethel walked by and begged her for a lunch.
KEITH: Any other comics like comedy sitcom greats from that time that you think should have had a drama?
ANTHONY: That's a good question. Like what era? We're talking like the –Gleason could have done a drama.
KEITH: 60s, 70s.
JODY: Absolutely. Yeah. I don't think Randall ever had a drama –Tony Randall.
ANTHONY: No, he had the show – was it called the Tony Randall Show?
JODY: . Yeah. It was a comedy. He played a judge; that was a comedy. He was in Love Sydney, which was a comedy.
ANTHONY: It was pretty serious, though. But it wasn't a drama.
JODY: Yeah. But it was before a live audience. It was, you know, the three- camera thing and you know
ANTHONY: It had a different tone though than other sitcoms.
JODY: Right and it was a TV movie first, which had a more – the TV movie he was in, the TV movie was called Sidney Shorr – that had a more serious tone. And then the sitcom was a little lighter.
KEITH: I have to know. Was Randall in “Quincy Me?”
JODY: No, he was never in “Quincy Me.”
KEITH: He never was a guest?
JODY: I don't think so. I don't think he was ever on “Quincy Me.”
ANTHONY: He was in a spin off called “Quincy You.”
JODY: “Quincy You.”
ANTHONY: Yeah, he taught at a university.
JODY: They were toyed with “Quincy Them” but that didn’t…
ANTHONY: I was surprised that Randall did not eventually have some sort of like, like a supporting role in some kind of dramatic show. He was one I had looked for. I thought, well, this is going way back and it's from movies, but I was also shocked to find out that Fred MacMurray was like a dramatic actor.
JODY: Yes.
ANTHONY: I knew him first from My Three Sons and then I found out he was in might, you know, he was a well known dramatic actor and like The Caine Mutiny and Double Indemnity and all that stuff.
JODY: There's a guy we left off tragically right now. Robert Reed was from The Brady Bunch to Nurse.
ANTHONY: Nurse?
JODY: Yeah.
ANTHONY: What the heck is Nurse?
JODY: Nurse was a show set in the hospital, a serious show and he played a doctor in Nurse.
ANTHONY: Was he la secondary character since it was about the Nurse?
JODY: Yes, he was a supporting character. But he was a regular on the show. And he was quite serious.
ANTHONY: When was this show on?
JODY: In the 80s at some point.
KEITH: It was Michael Lerner.
JODY: Michael Lerner, right.
KEITH: I mean, yeah, it was one of those shows that was on like after the shows that we watched were on, like it was the 10 o'clock show.
ANTHONY: Wow. Now this doesn't ring a bell for me at all. And that was after the Brady Bunch variety Hour?
JODY: Oh, yeah.
ANTHONY: He got a job after that? Good for him.
JODY: We should also mention one more thing with Cagney & Lacey. You know that Sharon Gless was not even the original Lacey on the show. And there was a different actress playing – not Lacey, Cagney– there was a different actress playing Cagney for the first season. And then Sharon Gless took over the same role.
ANTHONY: Oh, yeah, boy, they really had a tough time finding someone…
JODY: They had a tough time finding Cagney. Yes, they had a tough time finding their Cagney. No question. Christine Cagney was still not an easy role to fill.
ANTHONY: Did they ever consider James Cagney for the part?
JODY: That'd be great. (Imitates James Cagney) “Now, you listen to me Lacey.”
ANTHONY: Well, I think we've talked about this topic more than anyone wants to listen. We'll wrap it up. Thanks, everyone for listening. And we'll see you next time on Don't Touch That Dial, a classic TV podcast.
JODY: Thanks everyone.Have a good night.
KEITH: I’m just glad I can go back to being funny.
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